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YOUR VIEWS: Should the Twelfth be opened to other communities?



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Published Date: 03 July 2008
A MINISTER involved in the Orange Order has been critical of colleagues in Armagh for involving members of the Chinese community in their Twelfth celebrations.
Rev Stephen Dickinson believes the involvement of a Chinese dragon on the eleventh night prior to the Tandragee parade is "offensive".

"I wish to stress that whilst acknowledging that the Chinese community have every right to follow their own religious beliefs and practices, I believe it is fundamentally wrong for those beliefs to have any place or part in our Twelfth celebrations," he said.

The Twelfth parade is one of four across the province selected as a 'flagship' event by the Orange Order.

Hitting back at Rev Dickinson's remarks, an offical from Tandragee District says they are seeking to "embrace all aspects of local life" in the week long festival leading up to the Twelfth.

WHAT IS YOUR VIEW?

Should the Twelfth celbrations be more inclusive and embrace all aspects of Ulster society?

Should Orangeism as a whole embrace the 21st Century?

Or, as the annual event has been and continues to be a huge success, should participation remain unaltered?

Register and leave your comments on this topical debate.


The full article contains 204 words and appears in n/a newspaper.
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  • Last Updated: 03 July 2008 4:01 PM
  • Source: n/a
  • Location: Belfast
 
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John from Doagh,

03/07/2008 21:32:21
If only the orange order had more people like the Rev Dickinson to defend the Protestant faith from error.Do some orangemen want to turn the orange order into a secular organisation or away from the Christian teachings it is founded on?The orange order should be defending the faith and culture of its people and not making it into a muticultural carnaval.If there are orangemen who want to make it this,they might as well pack up and go home.
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Brian 22,

Belfast 03/07/2008 22:43:41
I would support the Rev. Dickinson for standing against pagan influences within the Orange Order. The Orange leadership need to listen to Rev. Dickinson who can be assured of support from ordinary Orangemen. Many I have spoken to are glad someone has the courage to articulate their views.
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one for all,

03/07/2008 23:09:45
Well said Rev Dickinson - this talk of Chinese dragons at the Twelfth is modernisation gone mad. By the time the liberals are finished the Twelfth will mean nothing to no one and will be watched by even fewer.
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denis,

Australia 04/07/2008 09:11:57
As, the Twelfth is a truly representative day of Britishness for the Community then it stands that including others in this very important Tradition would be a positive move. One's place of Birth should not exclude you from being part of where you choose to live, I, a Catholic by Birth do feel that your Traditions and Values are more to my liking than what the Stereo typing of me should be. But, if bigotry were to exclude others purely on Religious grounds then that indeed would be a backward step.
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Ptarmigan,

North Antrim 04/07/2008 09:50:13
Thank goodness, at long last and not before time, Three cheers for the Tandragee District for doing their best to try & drag the Order out of their totally outdated C19th mindset.
I'm delighted to see that at least one district is doing their best to ""embrace all aspects of local life" in the week long festival leading up to the Twelfth." Even the Dogs in the street know it's the best way forward, for us all.
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Iain Elliott,

Belfast 04/07/2008 11:49:16
The chinese display is part of the 11th night celebrations not the 12th and why shouldnt the chinese be part of the 11th night, alot of them are protestant anyway and have lived side by side with us for decades and surly a chinese display would be much more welcomed then the drink and drugs that are currently part of a lot of 11th night celebrations
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Matthew from Belfast,

05/07/2008 10:53:47
Surely as an Christian organisation why would the Orange Order want to include the Chinese culture as part of its celebrations. After all China is one of the worst countries for persecuting Christians. Its time the Orange Order has a good look at itself and stands for whats right. That means no meeting with terrorists, opposing those who do and certainly means not indulging in false religion. Its easy to say we are defenders of the faith but lets put it into action. I admire Stephen Dickinson for having the courage to speak out.
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Orangeman,

Roe Valley 05/07/2008 22:28:59
I agree in principle with Rev. Dickinson. The traditional Orange culture has sufficient attributes and talents to showcase and our history and traditions are valuable enough without bringing other 'traditions' into our celebrations. I just don't think it is appropriate for the membership of Grand Lodge to debate these things in public. Unfortunately what we see going on here is all part of the massive falling away from God's Law in these days we live in. satin is hard at work in these LAST days!... in ending, the 12th of July is Orangeman's Day NOT Orangefest!
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tangarineblue,

glasgow 06/07/2008 21:28:50
DO NOT MENTION THE WORD BRITISHNESS . IN THE SOCIALIST REPUBLIC OF ALEX SALMONDS SCOTLAND.. JUDGING BY THE BROWN NOSING THAT PAISLEY INDULGED ON SALMOND AFTER HIS VISIT TO THE SCOTTISH PARLIAMENT . MAYBE THE UNIONISTS IN NORTHERN IRELAND ARE DILUDED IN TO THINKING OF THE S.N.P AS A COSY SHORTBREAD & TARTAN PARTY . WHEN IN REALITY THEY ARE A HARD LEFT BRIT DESPISING PARTY WHO PLACED THEMSELVES TO THE HARD LEFT DURING THE SCOTTISH ELECTIONS IN 2007 . THEY GOT ALL THERE SUPPORT FROM THE ULTRA HARD LEFT VOTERS WHO DITCHED TOMMY SHERIDANS SCOTTISH SOCIALISIS / SOLIDARITY BRIGADE IN FAVOUR OF ALEX SALMONDS S.N.P .. THIS IS A SPEACH VERBATUM THAT SALMOND MADE AT HIS INVERNESS CONFERENCE [ WE ARE NOT AN ORDINARY POLITICAL PARTY OUR OBJECTIVE IS TO BREAK THE POWER OF THE STATE OF THE UNITED KINGDOM OVER THE SCOTTISH PEOPLE THAT IS OUR OBJECTIVE ] .. ONE OF HIS M.S.P S CALLED CAMPBELL MARTIN CALLED THE UNION JACJ A BUTHCHERS APRON .. S.N.P DRAGON WINNIE EWING FAMOUSLEY APPOLOGISED TO BERTIE AHERNE BACAUSE THERE WAS A UNION FLAG FLYING IN THE SCOTTISH PARLIAMENT DURING HIS THEN VISIT . GO ON TO THE YOUTUBE WEBSITE KEY IN / S.N.P / FREESCOTLANDNOW/ OR THE TARTAN ARMY / AND SEE THE BRIT DESPISING UNIONIST HATING PAGES DRAPPED IN SALTIRES .. WITH FULL SUPPORT & REPLIES FROM IRISH REPUBLICANS WISHING THE S.N.P & THE TARTAN ARMY ALL THE BEST IN THERE FIGHT FOR INDEPENDANCE AGAINGST THE BRITS.. ALSO LOOK AT THE FAMOUS TARTAN ARMY SCOTLAND FANS WHO ARE 99% SCOTTISH NATIONALIST .. ITS SIMPLE WHAT FLAG WOULD GET THE BIGGEST CHEERS AT A 50.000 CAPACITY HAMPDEN STADIUM FULL OF SCOTLAND FANS .. AN IRISH TRI-COLOUR OR A UNION FLAG.. OR WHO WOULD GET THE BIGGEST CHEER AT A 50.000 CAPACITY HAMPDEN STADIUM FULL OF SCOTLAND FAND FANS A GROUP OF BRITISH SOLDIERS FROM THE PARACHUTE REGT OR A GROUP OF EX I.R.A MEN ..
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Iain Elliott,

07/07/2008 11:17:46
Do people not bother to read articules in full before then go of half cocked and rant needlessly, the Chinise dragon display IS NOT PART of the 12th parade and in case you missed it i will repeat, myself the Chinise dragon display IS NOT PART OF THE 12TH PARADE IT IS PART OF THE 11TH NIGHT CELEBRATIONS which include fancy dress parade for the kids and a firework display non of which is christian. Personly i agree that the 12th parades should not be tampered with, but i have no problem with communitys putting on fetes, dances, music, fancy dress compertions or even chinise dragon displays on the run up to the 12th
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