Former Sinn Fein MP Michelle Gildernew and loyalist campaigner Jamie Bryson agree that murders were justified during Northern Ireland Troubles

Former Sinn Fein MP Michelle Gildernew and loyalist campaigner Jamie Bryson have both agreed that murder was justified during the Troubles.

The pair were speaking in discussion on a new BBC Podcast, Borderlands, due to go live today.

Ms Gildernnew held the Sinn Fein Westminster seat for Fermanagh South Tyrone for 21 years, stepping down from the position last year.

A recent law graduate, Mr Bryson works as a legal and public relations consultant and campaigns on matters of concern to loyalists.

Presenter Chris Buckler asked the pair, do you think murder was justified?

Ms Gildernew responded that the British army was responsible for the causing the Troubles.

"I wish it had been avoided, but I think the British Army brought a war to our streets, and the repercussions of that were as a result of what happened," she replied.

She then began to talk about protests against immigration, but Mr Bryson pressed her to answer the question.

"Do you believe IRA murder was justified or not? Do you? Be honest?"

The former Sinn Fein MP then replied: "I do".

Somewhat surprised, Mr Bryson replied that as they were being honest, he believes that "loyalists had the right to do the same the other way. That is fair enough, at least we are honest."

But presenter Chris Buckler pushed back against the easy justification of thousands of murders that took place during the Troubles.

"Isn't that awful, though, that we're going to sit here and have a conversation about murders and people talking about justifying murders," he said.

"The point is that both of you have now said that you think that murders were justified in this place."

In response Mr Bryson then qualified his justification: "I think the murder of IRA people were justified, yes - not civilians."

But the presenter responded to him that it did not matter who was murdered.

Ms Gildernew then pressed Mr Bryson on whether he agreed with the actions of the Shankill Butchers, who notoriously murdered random Catholic civilians.

But Mr Bryson pushed back with a list of atrocities in which the IRA deliberately targeted groups of civilians.

"What about La Mon, Enniskillen, Teebane, Kingsmills?" he asked her.

The presenter then interjected that he did not want to simply go "over and over the past, and all that kind of pain and suffering".

He added: "There may well be people listening to this that are still affected by that pain and suffering... victims of all sides and that's why this place remains in a schism."

According to reference work Lost Lives, republicans were responsible for 2158 murders during the Troubles (58.3%) while loyalists were responsible for 1099 (29.7%).

The security forces were responsible for 365 deaths (9.9%), the majority of which are classed as having been carried out within the law.